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Thread: Silly Question about Case Fans

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    Default Silly Question about Case Fans

    How do you determine what the best fan is, is it based off of the air flow that the fan produces? Higher being better? I know voltage and type of baring system it uses is also a factor, but as far as it "cooling potential" would it be the over air flow that it kicks out?

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    always wonder this but from alot of reviews i have read over the last few yrs alot of people are judging on the amount of air flow + how quite it is

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Most cases are designed with airflow in mind. CFM is the major component of a fan. Higher is better. How quiet they are is all on you. This is measure in db and should be listed somewhere in the specs of the fan. Lower is better. Normally the more CFM the higher the db. This leaves it all up to you. If you want high airflow you loose some quietness. Some fans have rubberized mounting points this keeps vibrations down as well which in turn makes them quieter also. Try to find the happy medium and make sure that you install them so all your fans work in unison, this will help keep noise and power consumption down.

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Unison as in front and bottom panels pull air in and the back and top panels push air out

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    that is what i was thinking, but just wanted a confirmation on it, thanks guys!

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Then i guess my next question would be, would you want the higher Air flow as the pull or the push?

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Quote Originally Posted by saturn97 View Post
    Most cases are designed with airflow in mind. CFM is the major component of a fan. Higher is better. How quiet they are is all on you. This is measure in db and should be listed somewhere in the specs of the fan. Lower is better. Normally the more CFM the higher the db. This leaves it all up to you. If you want high airflow you loose some quietness. Some fans have rubberized mounting points this keeps vibrations down as well which in turn makes them quieter also. Try to find the happy medium and make sure that you install them so all your fans work in unison, this will help keep noise and power consumption down.
    you can have alot of air flow and have it quite but your going to need a bigger fan

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnyakam View Post
    Then i guess my next question would be, would you want the higher Air flow as the pull or the push?
    I am not 100% sure on this one but, I would think you would want it the higher cfm fan to pull.

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    The Thinking that positive pressure is best is clear to understand from a dust control viewpoint but for cooling I believe that the actual design of the case will be as critical as anything because as the air flows through the case it must cool the essential components.

    So, if you set things up to have a shed load of air coming in and as it does so it passes through filters then inside the case that air is trying to leave. A single fan at the rear behind the cpu area will help to guide the majority of the air in that direction, cooling as it goes, but the remainder will be trying to escape through any other orifice. A good portion will be expelled by the GPU cooling system if those fans expel air out of the back of the case but these days not all do so. Any remaining higher pressure air will get through any cracks or joints in the case as it moves through. If air is exiting these gaps then dust cannot get in this way.

    In a perfect world you would know the cfm of the case fans and the gpu fans and could calculate how much intake cfm is needed, but ours is an imperfect world where there is a dearth of info regarding gpu airflow, so you will have to take a best guess if you want to set up this way.

    Fan noise is not just measurable for volume but has a certain quality too ... something like pitch and motor noise combine to make some fans more acceptable than others but this is subjective. What is OK for me might sound less good to you. Manufacturers' sound output figures are often best ignored as there tends to be no information about how that data was collected.

    Are you starting to see now that this is a very uncertain science? If you use a fan controller then you may also have to deal with motor resonances as well as fan resonance when running same make/types of fans in pairs/triples etc.

    The general rule is that bigger fans (diameter) are quieter. If you think about it a big fan can turn slower and still move the same amount of air as a small fan turning faster.

    These are just some of my thoughts about the subject. I hope it gives you food for thought.

    EDIT: It may be useful to think about how servers are cooled. Often there are just a row of fans that pull air in and push it across the components and straight out of the vents at the back. That method seems to work pretty well too so just because I mention positive pressure it does not mean that other ways will not work...I is just that normally a server runs in a clean (dust free) environment
    Last edited by grumpydaddy; 11-07-2013 at 15:45.
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  10. The following users thank 2 For this above post:

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpydaddy View Post
    The Thinking that positive pressure is best is clear to understand from a dust control viewpoint but for cooling I believe that the actual design of the case will be as critical as anything because as the air flows through the case it must cool the essential components.

    So, if you set things up to have a shed load of air coming in and as it does so it passes through filters then inside the case that air is trying to leave. A single fan at the rear behind the cpu area will help to guide the majority of the air in that direction, cooling as it goes, but the remainder will be trying to escape through any other orifice. A good portion will be expelled by the GPU cooling system if those fans expel air out of the back of the case but these days not all do so. Any remaining higher pressure air will get through any cracks or joints in the case as it moves through. If air is exiting these gaps then dust cannot get in this way.

    In a perfect world you would know the cfm of the case fans and the gpu fans and could calculate how much intake cfm is needed, but ours is an imperfect world where there is a dearth of info regarding gpu airflow, so you will have to take a best guess if you want to set up this way.

    Fan noise is not just measurable for volume but has a certain quality too ... something like pitch and motor noise combine to make some fans more acceptable than others but this is subjective. What is OK for me might sound less good to you. Manufacturers' sound output figures are often best ignored as there tends to be no information about how that data was collected.

    Are you starting to see now that this is a very uncertain science? If you use a fan controller then you may also have to deal with motor resonances as well as fan resonance when running same make/types of fans in pairs/triples etc.

    The general rule is that bigger fans (diameter) are quieter. If you think about it a big fan can turn slower and still move the same amount of air as a small fan turning faster.

    These are just some of my thoughts about the subject. I hope it gives you food for thought.

    EDIT: It may be useful to think about how servers are cooled. Often there are just a row of fans that pull air in and push it across the components and straight out of the vents at the back. That method seems to work pretty well too so just because I mention positive pressure it does not mean that other ways will not work...I is just that normally a server runs in a clean (dust free) environment
    Yeah, what he said!

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Holy hell, thanks for all the information everyone! as far as my case goes, it will support upto 140mm fans, 2 120 as a push uptop, 2 120 in the front as a pull and a 1 120 in the bottom as a pull, and a 90 in the rear as a push, the 2 up top and 1 on bottom are 63 CFM, not sure what the CFM Notuls (sp) in the front are, and need to look up what the nanoxia 90 is in the rea, now i have 3 Cooler Masters 120 that are 69 or 73 CFM, and i will have to be honest, i will need to reread what you put Grump, once i get some rest LOL, but you guys ROCK!! thanks again for all the info.

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Ever since the trend began to put the psu at the bottom of the case, the problem for air cooling is that fans and components may not line up very well. Back when the psu was at the top the dvd drive and switches (maybe even a floppy too) were at the top also which resulted in that top section not really being involved in the airflow design (apart from what the psu pulled out of the case). Any front fans pushed air directly across the MB components and the rear fan made sure that the hot air from the cpu cooler was exhausted.

    These days, with the psu at the bottom the top right corner of the MB is not getting as much cooling unless the user thinks very carefully about what fans he uses and whether they pull air in or exhaust it.

    This is, of course, all relative. If your target is cool and quiet then the chances are that you are not aiming for the bleeding edge of performance from your cpu etc. To do That you can forget all about quiet
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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Learn a lesson from your dog - No matter what life brings you, Kick some grass over that **** and move on.

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Took a moment to look at your case.

    I feel you might get the best from it by running 2 front fans and one in rear (the standard setup) then maybe adding one floor fan to begin with and then later one top fan (mounted in the center position) I would have the floor fan as a filtered intake fan and the top fan working as an exhaust.

    It might be interesting to then run some temp tests at each iteration of the build out including moving that top fan to the rearwards position and re run the tests after that too.

    This then brings us back to the question of which fans.....

    Your choice will be more restricted if you elect to go with 140mm fans but there may be a more pleasing result from the sound level. My problem with 140 mm fans is that I am not really up to speed on which are best so you will need others to chime in on this.

    Choosing to go with 120mm fans gets you a much bigger selection but remember the more air you are trying to move then the more noise you will generate

    My personal preference for radiator fans has long been the sythe gentle typhoon ap15 (1850rpm) or better yet the ap45 (2150rpm) but for your case you may do better. The guys here have shown a liking for Couger fans but some of those are better than others for both flow and pressure.... I believe the Cougar Vortex PWM will be the one you want but you will need their input for recommends. Another 120mm fan worthy of consideration might be the Noiseblocker B12-3 1900RPM which although somewhat loud in real terms has a pleasant noise quality.

    You will notice that I have been promoting performance fans here and although they are the quietest of their kind you may need to look elsewhere if your goal is more silence oriented.

    OK That's it. Feel free to ask a more specific question but for the moment that's all I have for you

    EDIT: Almost all

    For a comparison of noise quality I suggest you take a look at some video of testing done with the microphone really close to the fan. You can set some up to be at various voltages or at various airflows etc. for comparison Here
    Last edited by grumpydaddy; 12-07-2013 at 16:39.
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  16. The following users thank 2 For this above post:

    Carnyakam (14-07-2013), vinman (12-07-2013)

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    Default Re: Silly Question about Case Fans

    Noise is not an issue, it is in a guest room, so it will not bother anyone for more noise, and yet again thanks for the very in depth information Grumps!

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