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Thread: Angelbird Wings PCIe SSDs

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    Default Angelbird Wings PCIe SSDs

    LINK: http://www.angelbird.co.uk/wings#

    There is no way that I will be able to afford one of these anytime soon, but I will admit that I am very interested in seeing if it can put up the numbers it claims to. What makes this so special? PCIe x4 connectivity for SSD's, ability to add on third party SSD's to increase speed and drive size, and will boot on Windows, Mac, and most UNIX/Linux distributions.

    Quote Originally Posted by [URL
    http://www.angelbird.co.uk/wings#[/URL]]


    Exceptional power for everyone.

    What is Wings, and most importantly, why did we create it? SSD based cards were, until now, unbelievably expensive and not very compatible with all platforms. We made Wings in order to change all that. Starting at just $239, it comes with a wired 16 or 32 GB SSD used for booting, and up to four expansion cartridges can be added.. With the unique possibility to link multiple cards, called ArchWings, it will completely redefine the concept of mass storage speed.

    Also found out on their forums that the 32GB version will cost $299, and they should start shipping in the first weeks of November.

    The store is not currently up and running, but if the price on a few of their 120GB expansion SSD's is in the right price range, I might be upgrading again sometime next year.
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    Screenshot of their claims to speed:

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    Jeremy, you can buy a 120GB PCI-e from OCZ for the same price, so why buy a 32GB ? I got a sample from OCZ for Jake to review, I believe the review should be published shortly .
    Last edited by Doctor_Death; 23-10-2010 at 20:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shattered.likeness View Post
    Screenshot of their claims to speed:

    With 4 drives the transfer rates are more than 3 times faster. Is this a Raid 0 setup using these things? And if so I guess you lose TRIM support? or do these things need trim support.

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    from what I read storage grows in size as you add each card and speed increases as well
    or am I not looking at this correctly I dont think its a raid format?

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    @ 4Hams

    According to what one of the developers have said in their forums,
    Our SSD sport Sandforce SF1222 controllers, that allow TRIM even on BeOS or AmigaOS, as it is automatic and in background
    I have posted a question in their forums asking one of the developers for a definite answer though, as I have heard that even sandforce drives will not utilize TRIM without the Intel RST driver. If TRIM will be supported on AMD systems as well, this will great news. Once I get a response back, I will post it here.

    Also, yes adding additional drives to the unit will use RAID 0.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shattered.likeness View Post
    @ 4Hams

    According to what one of the developers have said in their forums,


    I have posted a question in their forums asking one of the developers for a definite answer though, as I have heard that even sandforce drives will not utilize TRIM without the Intel RST driver. If TRIM will be supported on AMD systems as well, this will great news. Once I get a response back, I will post it here.

    Also, yes adding additional drives to the unit will use RAID 0.
    Since when will any SSD support TRIM when used in a Raid Array? Maybe I have missed something very big within the industry but my understanding was that TRIM was not supported by any controller available when used for a Raid Array.

    If I am wrong please inform me of these developements that somehow I missed...

    Thanks Jeremy!

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    Like Kingston said when we asked them once before, Trim will not be supported in RAID Array.

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    Thanks Stan, that was my understanding also.

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    Joel, as you know technology changes all the time, so it's very possible a few months to a year from now that running Trim and RAID together may be possible.

    But Kingston did say Trim will not be supported in a RAID Array, however I believe she added that the benefits of running a RAID Array outweigh using Trim or something like that, it was 4-6 months ago so I'm not really sure what her exact words.

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    BIG UPDATE!!!::

    Quote Originally Posted by shattered.likeness
    What I am mainly concerned with is the TRIM support for your drives on an AMD based system, not able to run the Intel RST drivers. I have read on several forums online, that systems using the AMD or Marvell SATA controllers, even on a Sandforce based drive, will not be able to utilize the TRIM command. Any thoughts on this? Or is my question completely negligible as you have stated that the Sandforce SF1222 controller allows TRIM "automatically and in the background"?

    Also, have your drives been tested under Ubuntu?
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    Hello and welcome!

    With Wings, TRIM is subjective to the drives attached to it. In particular, our Crest Expansion Cartridge use a Sandforce SF-1222 controller that basically executes TRIM always, in background and transparently to the OS, whichever it is that we are using. It felt particularly good to see TRIM working in DOS

    So TRIM will always be there using our drives or any other drive equipped with a Sandforce controller.

    Linux drivers work very well, Virtue and Ubuntu are sharing the same driver, in fact.

    We might want to tweak Wings' Linux driver later on to make it more performant and strip it of several unneeded lines of code, but that can be done in the immediate future.

    Thanks for the interest!

    D.
    So unless I'm reading this wrong, it doesn't really matter if you are using a non_Intel driver for Trim, their onboard controller is always running TRIM on the hardware itself, independant of the OS involved as long as the SSD is using a Sandforce controller.

    So, it looks as if Kingston may not be able to run SSD's in RAID 0, while utilizing TRIM, but Angelbird can!

    BTW, we should try to contact them for a review sample. seeing those kinds of numbers being reached, using RAID 0 onboard with TRIM, this would definitely bring us some more attention.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFA3UwUU5Q

    Here is something for ya to look at Jeremy. it is a test showing their 120GB drive opening 50 apps at once.

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    Now just imagine that with 4 of those on the 32GB card, with RAID 0 & TRIM, on my AMD system running Linux. That's going to be scary fast.
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    I do not see this going mainstream for a few reasons.

    1. The initial cost of the 32GB card is $299.00 http://www.angelbird.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13

    2. That is a relatively small amount of storage space for the cost.

    3. In order to achieve the speeds mentioned you will have to add 4 more cards, price is still not released on these cards.

    4. This is a very small company and unless this became mainstream and other companies start building the same hardware it will never come down in cost.

    There SATA 3 6.0GB's SSD's can be used as external drives which is great! Price not released yet?
    But when connecting externally they can only be connected via USB connection and it is only a USB 2.0 connection. This is a little stupid in my opinion. If building a device to be at the top of the market why use and old slow interface when the newer 3.0 USB standard is already available to consumers...

    Thanks for the info Jeremy I just do not see it coming to reality for most users. Maybe in large server environments?

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    Their response doesn't seem.........direct. Forget the innovative "modular" format, forget the interface, forget possibly needing a RAID card? Forget all that for a second........

    I am ONLY interested in one thing: if their products do indeed work as a RAID 0, then is TRIM supported on that RAID?

    Notice their response says "So TRIM will always be there using our drives or any other drive equipped with a Sandforce controller." I could have already told you that TRIM is supported on drives equipped with a Sandforce controller. We all know this. But not in RAID from what EVERYONE is saying. So their response is a non-answer. Saying TRIM works with Sandforce is NOT the same as saying TRIM works with Sandforce in RAID. That is a very, very big difference.

    I would ask them 2 questions that require a yes or no response, keep it simple:

    1. does your drive(s) operate as a RAID setup, yes or no?

    2. if yes, then is TRIM supported on the RAID setup, yes or no?


    Answer to #2, if you ask any SSD manufacturer in the world, is currently No. Unless these guys figured out a way to do TRIM in RAID, something that NOBODY else has been able to accomplish, then I call shenanigans. Otherwise they just hit the lottery and solved the SSD equivalent of the holy grail.

  22. The following user thanks Skyguy For this above post:

    4hams (29-10-2010)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyguy View Post
    Their response doesn't seem.........direct. Forget the innovative "modular" format, forget the interface, forget possibly needing a RAID card? Forget all that for a second........

    I am ONLY interested in one thing: if their products do indeed work as a RAID 0, then is TRIM supported on that RAID?

    Notice their response says "So TRIM will always be there using our drives or any other drive equipped with a Sandforce controller." I could have already told you that TRIM is supported on drives equipped with a Sandforce controller. We all know this. But not in RAID from what EVERYONE is saying. So their response is a non-answer. Saying TRIM works with Sandforce is NOT the same as saying TRIM works with Sandforce in RAID. That is a very, very big difference.

    I would ask them 2 questions that require a yes or no response, keep it simple:

    1. does your drive(s) operate as a RAID setup, yes or no?

    2. if yes, then is TRIM supported on the RAID setup, yes or no?


    Answer to #2, if you ask any SSD manufacturer in the world, is currently No. Unless these guys figured out a way to do TRIM in RAID, something that NOBODY else has been able to accomplish, then I call shenanigans. Otherwise they just hit the lottery and solved the SSD equivalent of the holy grail.
    Thanks Jake, that was my thoughts on the hardware also. If they had solved the Trim support issue when using Raid Arrays it would have been on every News tech site...

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