Using Woman in the tech fIeld

[vinman]

Do you feel using beautiful woman to sell products is exploiting woman, and do you believe its only to help sell the products
or do woman actually have the knowledge of the products that they are selling

[calemus]

whene comparing two identicaly qualified people of the opposit sex it is scientificly proven woman recieve better responces in sales.


men are beasts driven by lust. that is an easly established visual actuation for stimulis. show desirable object = aquire target's attention.
it's called baiting.
the sales want you to buy.
so they use all the options they can.

while there are some who "are less controled by hormones", and even some who are actualy disgusted at the use of female persuasion
they are far far fewer than the rest of the lustful raging beasts.
so numbers have it. and the bigger dollar value wins.
flash females, make more sales.

[Cyberburnout]

Do you feel using beautiful woman to sell products is exploiting woman........... Answer Yes.
and do you believe its only to help sell the products..........Answer Yes
or do woman actually have the knowledge of the products that they are selling... Very few will know anything about the Product. Just as very few men that are used to sell a product actually know anything about it.

Men are used in the same fashion either to sell products to woman or to sell a product to a man. Is that Exploitation of Men? Use a man in say a car ad. A man the marketing group thinks you can relate to. Is that exploitation? Do you really think he knows what makes that motor special or even really drove the dang thing? Does using a sports figure fit body to advertise gator aide or some other fitness product, Isnt that the same? Do you think that sports figure knows if that product actually works? Or is it a job that he willingly signed up for?

To exploit others is to take unfair advantage of them. So in this case WE are being exploited. Using our most primal desires and chemistry against us to purchase things we dont need.

[PM_DMNKLR]

Glad to see the discussion moved over here to it's own thread. Like it's been mentioned, yes these women (notice how there are quite a lot of women who use computers and you never see any expos or ads that have scantily-clad men with bulging muscles) are being used and I imagine they're willing because they get paid a lot of money to do so. In a way, they're exploited in the same way as strippers are. You go to a strip club, you spend lots of money on booze and the girls, and if they're pretty enough, you spend even more time and more money. I myself have been keeping an eye on the industry for a good while now, a very close eye in fact (I'm 31 now and have been messing with this stuff for the last 16+ years), especially since I became an adult and left home. Back in the mid-late 90's, I didn't see a lot of this garbage, I saw lots of progress in the computer industry, LOTS of progress. Over time it got to be a little more "sex sells" than it was before, and the markets started to stagnate. We take away the sex factor of the marketing and the products got better, more innovation started and things were running fast and beastly. The market and industry had started growing again and much greater than before. It became cool to be a geek and then a few years ago the sex advertising started again and progressively we began seeing a stagnating market of drab products being pushed onto us by scantily clad women more and more (and mind you most of them nowadays are butt-ugly too and some you can't even tell if they're even female to be honest). The products are getting crappier and especially uglier and the marketing teams we deal with are not looking at us as if we're intelligent people who actually care about what we use and buy, they look at us as if we're mentally retarded and will buy anything with some TNA attached to it, even in some distantly remote form.

I've especially noticed this over the last few years having watched videos of and looked at pics from shows like CES, for one example, PAX another, and so forth. I've seen countless videos and images of guys standing in crowds, all of them with products in hand and gawking at some chick walking around in a bikini or lingerie, who (you guessed it) just so happens to have that same exact item in her hands and showing herself off to market it. Almost every single time, it's over-priced and ugly as a turd on a log. As I stated in another thread, I've spoken with some of my friends who either are or were company reps for the PC industry and they told me that I was spot on in my observances. The big problem is that the head honchos are calling the shots, telling production and engineering to make what they can fit into budget, screw quality and aesthetics and then to just have the marketing teams "sex it up" so it will sell. Unfortunately, the bigger issue is that enough of us speak negatively with our wallets instead of positively. What I mean by this is we allow them to treat us this way by just buying their stuff anyway rather than drawing a line in the sand and demanding better products without sexploitation marketing to convince us to buy it anyway. I'm a straight male, married, family, etc. and I appreciate the female form, I see no harm in admiring a woman's beauty, just like how my wife admires a handsome man's appearance as well, there's nothing wrong with that. The issue is that we unfortunately give them fuel to keep the fire going and the biggest negative result is that it's causing the products to become uglier and crappier over time because they aren't caring about "us", they're caring more about the $$$. We need a market and an industry that will not use sexploitation to market our hormones crap products and instead will use intelligent advertisement to get our brains to have us buy gorgeous and awesome quality ones.

Some say I may be crazy for how passionate I get about this subject, but it's because I actually give a crap, whereas a lot of people don't. I want to not only see the computer industry flourish financially but overall, and I not only want that but I actually care about all of us end-users to want the best possible industry for us. I mean really, what's the point of even being an enthusiast when it turns from great to crap? It doesn't matter how much Frank's Red Hot you add to a dog turd, it's still a dog turd and I'm not eating it. Neither should anyone else. We end-users, the market and industry's customers, we have the ability and the power to change things for the better. We have that and we need to use it to our advantage. Don't fuel the fire, stomp it out before it burns the house down.

[calemus]

EXACTLY how do we have ANY power to make any change at all?

[PM_DMNKLR]

Because WE foot their paychecks. These people aren't stupid, they just treat us like we are. You put your foot down and refuse to buy their garbage products until they fix the problems. You wouldn't buy a piece of crap video game for $60 knowing that it's garbage, would you? Same goes for this. Take your money where you're respected and if need-be, hold off until they crack. WE are the end-users, WE are their income source, WE hold the power to pull a Sith Force Choke on them if need-be by voting with our wallets. Without end-users, customers, there is no industry. This is why we've seen numerous startups over the last few years, because of people like us becoming tired of the stagnation that's occurring from this situation (and the first time it happened years ago). Make great products, price it accordingly and affordably and you will win the customers over, add to that customer service that's second-to-none and you will keep their business. It won't take long as long as enough people care to make it work.

[calemus]

im poor. i always buy whats the best deal. bigest bang for my buck.
and i dont watch tv, and i dont see advertisments whene i surf the internet.
so what catagory am i?

[PM_DMNKLR]

im poor. i always buy whats the best deal. bigest bang for my buck.
and i dont watch tv, and i dont see advertisments whene i surf the internet.
so what catagory am i?

Like myself, you fall into the "average end-user" category. You just have to be more conservative with your purchasing is all. It's very possible, you just have to discipline yourself. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible. I've been doing it for years and once you get used to it it gets easier.

[Cyberburnout]

I understand your argument about woman in the industry as eye candy. However I almost every one of the major and non major manufacturers on Facebook and I just dont see the type of advertising your talking about. Yes every now and then during convention I will see some pics of the show girls. When Gigabyte introduces a new product they don't post pics of some big boob woman holding the board. It is just a pic of the product with info and sometimes some colorful flashy background. That is how most if not all do it. Again yes you will sometimes see pics from a convention with showgirls holding a board. That is NOT the norm though. I interact with most of these oems daily and I just dont see the type of advertising you are talking about.

So my questions are 1. Who are you talking about that advertises in this manner? 2. What product are you referring to as crap that was advertised with half naked woman? 3. When do you as a consumer become responsible for your own purchases? If it was crap why did you buy it? Naked chicks made you do it?

Please dont take my comments as an attack or belittling your argument. I am just trying to narrow it down some. Painting the entire tech industry with a single brush is just too much of a general statement. Its kind of like saying an entire race of people do one particular thing. So are we talking about Hardware companies? All or certain type of hardware makers.

[PM_DMNKLR]

I'm not saying that they all do it, I think I forgot to mention that part. Thanks for doing so, good catch. Anyway, I'm constantly seeing it happen with companies like ECS, Avexir, Thermaltake, MSI, and a plethora of others. Heck, even Razer does it. Not all of these companies put out 100% all garbage products either, it's actually quite to the contrary, however they choose to market all of their products with sexploitation advertising. In a lot of magazines you don't see it often, but it does happen often on Facebook and especially (as we mentioned) at trade shows. The huge problem with when they do so is that they intentionally choose these big events to do so because they know it gets them the most public advertisement.

Admittedly, there are some companies who don't use such tactics and yet they make garbage products, lol, one particular one is G-Vans and another is Raidmax. Specific products from other manufacturers, the best thing I can say is look on any e-tailer PC component site. From cases (ESPECIALLY cases) to peripherals, there are a ton of ugly-as-a-turd products and lots of them are made with such low-quality materials that too much is missed out on. I personally have spoken with numerous people who hate Razer's products because they fall apart or stop functioning way too easily (again, not all of their products), I've spoken with numerous people who've intentionally passed on Tt's cases because of how insanely ugly and anti-functional they've been becoming, making it not necessarily inviting to modders but practically forcing modifications by end-users just for the sake of having something that looks decent AND functions just as well. I'm a modder, so I will absolutely NOT dog on that area, however the point is that we should mod because we enjoy it, not out of sheer necessity. When that becomes a factor, we quickly move to something we will more enjoy modding because it's fun, not because we need to in order to make it work properly or not fall apart.

Oh, and one of the biggest I'm concerned about is Cooler Master. Oh my word do they ever lead the pack in sexual advertising to the community, lol. Every month they feature a different "model" or CMHD.TV girl if you will, on their CMHD.tv website, their Facebook ads often show "attractive women"/models and at every trade show event they have scantily-clad women everywhere. What's wrong with their products? Horrible case functionality designs across the board, except for their highest-priced ones (like the Cosmos II which a lot of people have agreed with me that the Cosmos line has just been horribly ugly, yet great canvas for a mod) and their CM Storm peripherals may function well but they're all horrendous to look at. Aesthetics is the first thing we all look at, functionality, quality and price all come in right behind it, but it's appearance first, always. I'll have to look around for more that I'm talking about (it's 2:35 am here and my brain is slowing down, lol), but rest assured I am not speaking of all companies in the industry. I do have to say though that the biggest market for ugliness/crap-functionality has to be cases. We should be able to buy something that looks good, functions well and also is affordable. Sadly, they'd rather shell out the cash, that they could be spending on making better products, to a bunch of young women (lately I'm not 100% about the young part either, lol) who will walk around scantily-clad and with products-in-hand, in order to get as many doofuses as possible to think that they will get hot chicks if they buy those products. To me it's more an insult than anything and I honestly cannot fathom why anyone wouldn't be offended. Much as I'd like the "babes" they're using, to do this, to just stand up and say they've had enough of it and refuse to do it any more, I know that won't happen and by all rights they're their own people and are adults, so they can make their own decisions. Instead, we need to let these companies know that we'd rather invest our $$$ into companies that respect us end-users enough to spend their cash, which comes from us, on ensuring that we have great products that function well, are easier on the eyes and are affordable to us as well. I don't mean to make every case awesome and price it in the $50-75 range, that's ludicrous, but regardless of the prices within the range, make it nice looking and functional as well.

I will say one thing about the specified companies I mentioned in the first paragraph, their customer service is great, that's not an issue for them, it's the rest of what they do. Take Thermaltake for example. The majority of their products are great to look at and have wonderful functionality (albeit their peripheral management apps are horribly slow), but they do have some products that they market with TNA most and they also happen to be the ones which are ugliest and not many are buying them even to this day because they're ugly and highly expensive. If you want to see a fine example of what my point is and the point of the whole thread, Google some pics and vids for "booth babes". That will show you what I mean, especially the CES ones.

/brain exhausted, will return after some sleep and house cleaning, lol. Gnite peeps.

[vinman]

OK guys I have to tell you a story I use to teach the sales force back in the day about the products they were selling
And I would use my wife as an example, at the time she was top sales person 2 years in a row she sold cars!
Nissan's she sold more Z's then anyone on that lot you know why? yes she was beautiful with a body to go with it 36 x 24 x 36
But that didn't sell cars, at the time she owned and drove a fully loaded Red 300Z and she loved that car and it was fast she new that car inside and out
and when someone came on to the lot looking for one she would open the hood rattle off the specs 0 to 60 in bla bla bla sit them in the car point out all its features
take for a test drive my point here is she new the product and it sold itself because of it.

I have met a few and I mean a few girls at shows like CES and at the car dealers that actually know the products and I was very impressed by their knowledge and not just there looks.
And I have to admit a good looking woman will get my attention quicker then a guy would but she had better studied her product before she decides to sell me on anything because I have already done my homework.

[JamesLT3]

If you are mindless enough to buy a product/game based on the looks of a female than good for these company's capitalizing on that. I have to admit i thought this was going to get out of hand but i was wrong...well done on keeping this civil! LMAO!

[Doctor_Death]

Come on Vinny, every one likes seeing a great pair of jugs and a nice butt, would you rather have them start using guys

[Cyberburnout]

PM_DMNKLR I think you may be leaving out one factor in the advertising style of those companies. There is a cultural difference between Asia and North America. It just the way things are over there. The TV shows, cartoons, advertising, comic books, Graphic novels and video games are all filled with sex and half naked big boobed woman. The advertising campaigns kind overflows to the North American Audience. Not so much as 100% targeted at the North American audience. So if we are to make a change like you suggest we would need to nuke Asia and start over lol

[vinman]

You got to love it lol!

[PM_DMNKLR]

PM_DMNKLR I think you may be leaving out one factor in the advertising style of those companies. There is a cultural difference between Asia and North America. It just the way things are over there. The TV shows, cartoons, advertising, comic books, Graphic novels and video games are all filled with sex and half naked big boobed woman. The advertising campaigns kind overflows to the North American Audience. Not so much as 100% targeted at the North American audience. So if we are to make a change like you suggest we would need to nuke Asia and start over lol

Interesting perspective and opinion, however you forget one key factor: without the USA these companies would be screwed like a doorknob. A lot of people still believe that we're somewhat of a lesser player in the game, but that's actually quite the opposite. Ask any of these companies who deal with the USA and they'll tell you that we provide far more revenue for them than any other country and more-often-than-not a group of countries combined. Additionally, I'm not saying that it only affects us in the USA, nowhere did I state that at all. It affects everyone worldwide, and despite what may appear to be the mainstream culture depicted of Asian countries, there are quite a lot of folks out that way that do not approve of or appreciate such things as sexploitation. I have friends all over the world, including the Philippines, Japan, Indonesia, Canada, the USA (of course), the UK, AUS, New Zealand, etc. so I do get a bit of an insider perspective from them often on what things are like where they are.

Nowhere am I saying that we are to become like Buddhist monks and abstain from being human, the point is that we need to have enough self-respect to tell these companies enough is enough and we're not giving them our $$$ until they treat us and everyone else better than they have. We want hardware pr0n, not hoochies trying to convince our hormones to buy junk that's overpriced. Now if you're actually selfish enough to not care how it affects everyone else, that's honestly on you and I wouldn't be surprised in today's "gimme gimme gimme" society, and that's one thing they feed on as well. If all of us actually worked as a team to fix what's broken (you do realize they're primarily targeting the younger super-hormonal crowd, right? They already got to us older folks at least once.), then it can be done. I'm not accusing anyone of actually being selfish, mind you, I'm just saying that it's in each individual's and the industry as a whole's best interest for each of us not to be selfish and to care about ourselves and each other.

OK guys I have to tell you a story I use to teach the sales force back in the day about the products they were selling
And I would use my wife as an example, at the time she was top sales person 2 years in a row she sold cars!
Nissan's she sold more Z's then anyone on that lot you know why? yes she was beautiful with a body to go with it 36 x 24 x 36
But that didn't sell cars, at the time she owned and drove a fully loaded Red 300Z and she loved that car and it was fast she new that car inside and out
and when someone came on to the lot looking for one she would open the hood rattle off the specs 0 to 60 in bla bla bla sit them in the car point out all its features
take for a test drive my point here is she new the product and it sold itself because of it.

I have met a few and I mean a few girls at shows like CES and at the car dealers that actually know the products and I was very impressed by their knowledge and not just there looks.
And I have to admit a good looking woman will get my attention quicker then a guy would but she had better studied her product before she decides to sell me on anything because I have already done my homework.

I actually strongly admire those females who do what you just described. You'll notice there's a pretty distinct difference between women selling with their minds and women selling with their bodies. Pretty significant difference as I'm sure you've no doubt observed yourself. Heck, I'm a personal fan of 2 female eSports teams, the Frag Dolls and the Ladies 2 Die 4, and even have a lot of them as Facebook friends too. We regularly interact and I let them know how much I appreciate what they do for the industry. They're not only beautiful women, but they're self-respecting, have dignity and know their stuff. They don't use their feminine wiles to get horny little porn zombies to buy stuff, they actually interact with people, play games with them online, you name it they do it because they care about their fans and themselves as well. Heck, I hear from a lot of them often about this very subject, it literally angers them a lot that these companies do this stuff. Sadly, because they're women, not many give them the time of day and actually listen to their words. I mean, it's come to the point where other women/girls are seeing what's happening and have created their own social network pages where they're posting up tons of pictures of themselves naked with games and computer parts just to get attention. The whole situation within the industries is feeding a revolting fire that is actually causing a lot of divisiveness in the computer tech and gaming industries. Heck, I've even gained lots of respect from female gamers and computer enthusiasts, modders, etc. who have discussed this with me and we've become pretty decent friends because of it.

They're tired of it, many of us guys are tired of it and it's high time we just band together as a community and tell the industry we've had enough and it needs to change. I've been a gamer since I was able to move a joystick, and I'm 31 years old now. I've been using computers and working on them since I was around 15. At 31 I'm actually so disgusted with this situation that I'm actually contemplating letting it all go if nothing gets changed for the better, and I am far from alone in that. When it's come to the point where it's more offensive than fun, then you know something definitely needs to change.