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Thread: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

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    Default Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT



    As the result of weekend-time research, the HWBOT staff has decided to invalidate all benchmark records established with the Windows8 operating system. Due to severe validity problems with the Windows8 real time clock (“RTC”), benchmarks results achieved with Windows8 cannot be trusted. The main problem lies with the RTC being affected when over- or underclocking under the operating system. The operating system uses the RTC as reference clock, and benchmarks use it to reference (benchmark) time.

    Background Information – Remember Heaven?

    At the moment of writing, we do not have the full technical what’s and how’s figured out. Since this problem affects everyone who is passionate about overclocking, it is important to provide an explanation. It is far from the complete story, but it should be enough for you to understand why we have decided to ban Windows 8 from HWBOT.
    Do you remember the history of Unigine Heaven at HWBOT? About three years ago, we launched a wrapper for the back-then brand new DX11 benchmark software Unigine Heaven. The wrapper featured an easy and secure way to submit benchmark scores to HWBOT via data files. On November 2, 2010 we posted a response to an on-going discussion about downclocking in Windows affecting the benchmark score. To make a very long story short, by downclocking in Windows the Heaven benchmark time runs slower than it really is. One second in the Heaven benchmark is equal to 1,x second of real time. Because there is more time within a second, the system can render more frames. The benchmark itself is unaware of all this – for the benchmark, one second is still exactly one second. In the end, the system renders a higher amount of frames in a longer timeframe. In the result calculation for frames per second (“FPS”), the “frames” have increased but the “second” remains the same. You get a higher score.
    Later that week, we published a V1.03b version of the wrapper, which fixed the downclock issue. Without going too much into detail, the wrapper uses a second source to verify the benchmark duration and takes the relative measured time difference into account when calculating the final score. Problem solved.

    Windows8 – “Support for all devices”


    As you know, Microsoft is trying to come up with a unified operating system and user interface for a wide range of devices, including tablets, smartphones, Xbox One, and the desktop PC. Building this unified platform is not easy. It is not just a matter of creating an interface that can be used with a multitude of input devices (finger, mouse, controller), but it also needs to support as many devices as possible. Getting the software to run out of the box on as much hardware as possible is the challenge they are facing.
    Of the many aspects to fine-tune, one feature in particular is causing Windows8 to be practically useless for (competitive) overclocking: the RTC. Quoting Wikipedia, “A real-time clock (RTC) is a computer clock (most often in the form of an integrated circuit) that keeps track of the current time. Although the term often refers to the devices in personal computers, servers and embedded systems, RTCs are present in almost any electronic device which needs to keep accurate time.” Sparing you the details of development process, compared to Windows7 and previous versions, Microsoft made changes to how it measures time to be compatible with embedded or low cost PCs that do not have a fixed RTC clock. After all, having a fixed RTC clock adds cost to a platform.
    Your PC system uses the RTC for many things. For example, it ensures the Windows Time on your machine is accurate. For most benchmark applications, the RTC is used as reference clock when executing the benchmark code. By synchronizing with the RTC, the benchmark knows exactly how much time has passed, and takes that value into account when calculating the performance of your system.

    It’s all relative (part2)


    In a previous editorial (“Critical thinking – Should Maximus V Extreme be …”), we already touched the topic of the relativity of time in our overclocking universe. “The concept of ‘time’ on a PC configuration is, if not synced via network or internet, an arbitrarily defined constant designed to ensure that the configuration is running in sync with the real world. In other words: hardware and software engineers ensure that ‘one second’ on your PC equals ‘one second’ in real time. One of the reasons why it’s so important to have the PC’s timer line up with the real world time is to ensure that your PC can produce accurate measurements and predictions.” The points we brought up in that editorial are relevant again. To ensure that the arbitrarily defined constant of ‘time’ is the same on everyone’s benchmark system, we rely on the OS and hardware. This worked quite well, until Windows8 came around.
    The problem builds on the problems we faced with Heaven. When downclocking the system under Windows8, the Windows RTC is affected as well. The biggest difference between Windows7 and Windows8 is that now all benchmarks
    (no exception) are affected
    .

    Examples: Benchmarks and Windows Time.

    Let us make this more practical. On our Haswell test system we downclocked the BCLK frequency by about 6% from 130 MHz to 122MHz. Using a CPU ratio of respectively 32x and 34x, the resulting CPU frequency remains 4160MHz. Then we ran comparison benchmarks.
    Breaking! Windows 8 Benchmark Records No Longer Accepted At HWBOT - Benchmark Result Veracity Compromised

  2. The following users thank 4 For this above post:

    Bob2701 (18-08-2013), grumpydaddy (18-08-2013), realneil (18-08-2013), xelosia (18-08-2013)

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Windows 8 is junk anyway.

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Don't you sit on the fence there Stan...

    Got to agree with you there.... Yet another reason why 8 is no good for desktops
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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Nice find Kevin.

    I agree that Win-8 is not as fine as Redmond would have us believe.
    For the desktop, Win-7 is miles ahead of it when it comes to ease of use.

    There may be technical reasons why Win-8 is better, but they don't matter if we can't stand the interface.

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    The only issue people have with win8 is the interface. It doesnt make the entire os junk. Win8 runs faster and smoother then Win7. It just doesnt count if you cant find wtf you are looking for. I think with Win 8.1 is released it will change a lot of people because they will has the start menu back and the option for boot to desktop first instead of metro ui. Win 8 adoption will increase after that.
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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberburnout View Post
    The only issue people have with win8 is the interface. It doesnt make the entire os junk. Win8 runs faster and smoother then Win7. It just doesnt count if you cant find wtf you are looking for. I think with Win 8.1 is released it will change a lot of people because they will has the start menu back and the option for boot to desktop first instead of metro ui. Win 8 adoption will increase after that.
    If it wasn't such a PITA to use, I may have bought it. I already have Win-7 for all of my systems though.

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    If it wasn't such a PITA to use, I may have bought it. I already have Win-7 for all of my systems though.
    I know what you mean. it takes a bit to get used to it but once you do you will start understanding the benefits of the UI. It makes it easier to get to anything you need. You just have to know where to go first and most people to give it a chance to to find out. lol Even more go by what other people have said without actually trying it for themselves. There was so much bad hype before its release about the stupid start menu that Win8 was screwed before it hit the shelves. lol

    Lets see what MS does to rememdy that. I know there is a new TUT that explains where everything is and how to use the corner shortcuts and menus. I say if you havent given it a week then you havent given Win8 a shot at all. You dont need a week to learn it, you need it to really get into the flow of it. I have win 7 installed on everything and win8 on 1 systems as the only OS and another as Dual boot.
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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor_Death View Post
    Windows 8 is junk anyway.
    i would have to agree with that statement
    You don't know me and that's the way i like it!

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    I had all of their pre-release versions and had at least one PC with 8 on it for months. (I tried AMD and Intel boxes out) I ended up using classic shell to kill-off the stinky UI and it was easier for me afterwards.
    I figured out how to find things rather quickly too.

    I don't know where they got the name "Metro" for their UI.
    It looks more like Tinker-Toy or "Building-Blocks" to me.

    I was one of the huge majority that gave the Metro interface bad reviews from the start. The negative perception was overwhelming, yet they ignored us and what we (their customers) wanted. They even renamed Metro to something else because someone at the corporate level thought it was the name that nobody liked.

    How out of touch can they be? (now we know)

    I believe that they started out being jealous of Apple's huge financial successes with the iStore, APP Store, and iPad/iPhone too.
    They were trying to create their own ~like~ enviroment with this "everything" OS and it doesn't work. It's not even close.

    Then,......they shoved it down our throats and pissed everyone off. Their crappy sales show this to be true.

    So here I sit with (a wonderfully working) Win-7 already, and I cannot justify spending money on Win-8, even when they were practically giving it away.

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    I had all of their pre-release versions and had at least one PC with 8 on it for months. (I tried AMD and Intel boxes out) I ended up using classic shell to kill-off the stinky UI and it was easier for me afterwards.
    I figured out how to find things rather quickly too.

    I don't know where they got the name "Metro" for their UI.
    It looks more like Tinker-Toy or "Building-Blocks" to me.

    I was one of the huge majority that gave the Metro interface bad reviews from the start. The negative perception was overwhelming, yet they ignored us and what we (their customers) wanted. They even renamed Metro to something else because someone at the corporate level thought it was the name that nobody liked.

    How out of touch can they be? (now we know)

    I believe that they started out being jealous of Apple's huge financial successes with the iStore, APP Store, and iPad/iPhone too.
    They were trying to create their own ~like~ enviroment with this "everything" OS and it doesn't work. It's not even close.

    Then,......they shoved it down our throats and pissed everyone off. Their crappy sales show this to be true.

    So here I sit with (a wonderfully working) Win-7 already, and I cannot justify spending money on Win-8, even when they were practically giving it away.
    Well said
    You don't know me and that's the way i like it!

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    i use windows 8 but never touch the new ui, i like how it works abit clunky here and there but all in all its about the same as any other windows out there

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    But... AMD's FX CPU's perform best on Win 8

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post

    I was one of the huge majority that gave the Metro interface bad reviews from the start. The negative perception was overwhelming, yet they ignored us and what we (their customers) wanted. They even renamed Metro to something else because someone at the corporate level thought it was the name that nobody liked.


    I believe that they started out being jealous of Apple's huge financial successes with the iStore, APP Store, and iPad/iPhone too.
    They were trying to create their own ~like~ enviroment with this "everything" OS and it doesn't work. It's not even close.

    Then,......they shoved it down our throats and pissed everyone off. Their crappy sales show this to be true.

    So here I sit with (a wonderfully working) Win-7 already, and I cannot justify spending money on Win-8, even when they were practically giving it away.
    They changed the name of Metro because they lost a copyright infringement lawsuit regarding the name and a previous product buy the same name.

    Who said anything about buying Win8? lol
    "If you got it, Build it"

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  17. #14
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    joshjaks is offline

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Ah, I still have win 8 on my desktop and it just has too many annoying quirks. Nothing bad enough to make me want to spend the money on a new key yet, but Windows 7 is WAY better in terms of how fluid it is with everyday procedures.

    I will say at least 8 wasn't vista though.
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  18. #15
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    jackjack is offline

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    Default Re: Windows 8 No Longer Accepted At HWBOT

    Stiil using W7 now
    nice info Kevin.

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