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Thread: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

  1. #1
    Gu3
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    Default Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    Skylake users given 18 months to upgrade to Windows 10 | Ars Technica

    More interesting than the headline is the idea that the Latest MS OS will be required to run the latest Intel hardware.

    Gack....

    S.

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    but dat penguin doah!!!
    learning is good .....understanding is better .....pleas teach with wisdom............................................ ..............calemus

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...






    It's not entirely clear what hardware changes are really motivating this.
    It's also not entirely clear why Microsoft is making the decision; this burden seems like something that the hardware companies can make decisions about themselves.
    This may well prove awkward for enterprise customers.
    This last option is clearly the one that Microsoft wants as it strives to hit its "1 billion Windows 10 users" goal and kill off Windows 7 and 8.1, but it's a level of aggressive forced upgrades that are unprecedented in the Windows world–traditionally, it has been platforms such as OS X that have had poor-to-non-existent support for running old operating systems on new hardware.
    Honestly, I think that for most people will be more or less the same if they don't upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't similar story with Win 8 ?... Seems to me that Win 10 isn't yet fully mature and that Microsoft wants to unify win 10 on all platforms.

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    This decision of MS is absolutely absurd.

    Always look beyond the limits...

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    so tell me this

    if you were to disallow all updates & communication from microsoft to your OS
    you would then be able to continue use of said OS how ever you wish?
    stick it to em.

    install it fresh, and kill all coms from there. this will take some serious learning on your part, but i can tell you from experiance

    it makes for a much more pleasant PC user experience.
    and safer more secure experience also.
    learning is good .....understanding is better .....pleas teach with wisdom............................................ ..............calemus

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    I think that "Let us upgrade you" is fast becoming slang for "Let us infect you".

    They're all in a mad dash to "acquire" our DATA and they don't give a crap what we have to say about it.

    It makes me sick.

  7. The following users thank 2 For this above post:

    calemus (19-01-2016), Gu3 (19-01-2016)

  8. #7
    Gu3
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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    Quote Originally Posted by calemus View Post
    so tell me this

    if you were to disallow all updates & communication from microsoft to your OS
    you would then be able to continue use of said OS how ever you wish?
    stick it to em.

    install it fresh, and kill all coms from there. this will take some serious learning on your part, but i can tell you from experiance

    it makes for a much more pleasant PC user experience.
    and safer more secure experience also.
    Calemus, I agree with you in principle, but the mere fact of access to the Internet opens you to risks, and not updating can leave you vulnerable to exploits you don't even know exist, through threat vectors that are sometimes services you MUST use to even access the Internet. On an offline machine? Sure. It would work just like you describe. But on a connected machine? I dunno. Having said, that, letting Microsoft, or Avast, or AVG, or Kapersky, or Adobe, or whomever install updates is also a risky proposition...it's a real dilemma.

    But really this article isn't about using your current OS on your current hardware, it's about using your current OS on NEW hardware. The problem that this article illustrates would make your approach untenable *IF* you decided to lock down Windows 10 Release Foo on your current AMD Platform (or any platform), ran it for a couple of years, and then Microsoft introduced a new Version of Windows. Windows 10 Release Foo 2017 for example. You said "Ha! I'm going to stick it to them (those Microsoft Skallywags!) and stick with Windows 10 Release Foo! All is pleasant, safe and secure! I LIKE IT This way. BUT then Gigabyte smacks you between the eyes one day with a super smexy AMD Motherboard and AMD announces a new AMD processor for it! Voila! A new chipset too! In a fit of excitement, you throw some money at the Monitor, and your flash new hardware shows up at Calemus Central! Pulling out your super USB Drive of Windows 10 Foo Goodness, you go to install it.

    Sadness. Half the hardware on the Motherboard isn't recognized by Windows 10 Foo. And not just that, but, there will be no WHQL versions because Microsoft won't certify drivers for Windows 10 Foo (nor will they provide architecture support for newer features). Only Windows 10 Foo Release 2017 drivers are WHQL certified. Recognizing that tilting at WindowsMills is futile, Gigabyte promptly moves on to Windows 10 Foo Release 2017 drivers, which are the same but different. NVidia and AMD find themselves in the same position, and simply start releasing new hardware with compatiblilty only for the newer release of Windows, and shortly you find yourself with hardware that simply won't run right on Windows 10 Foo. BUT, Microsoft is here to save the day. IF you JUST DOWNLOAD and install Windows 10 Foo Release 2017, all will be well with the world. Magically all your smexy new hardware works, and Microsoft gets your $119 and everyone is happy. And oh, by the way, all the effort you put into shutting down all the phone home stuff in Windows 10 Foo, no longer works....

    Of course, this isn't new. Apple has done this with varying degrees of success, and given my experiences with Win7 and Z170, I'm not convinced this isn't already the norm, but having MS tell us that we CANNOT run an older OS on newer hardware because they simply aren't going to backport newer features to the older OS....makes me sad, and paints a grim picture of the future.

    That's the scary part of this article. In my infinitely uninformed opinion, what's driving this is that Microsoft isn't happy about the conversion rates from XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 10, and probably recognize that most people simply don't feel the need to update the OS if everything works. So, rather than figuring out how to make money other ways (value added services for example), MS wants to FORCE conversion rates by forcing users to upgrade to get things to work. If this doesn't work out like they plan, the next thing will probably be sponsored versions for home use (like Kindle with Adverts) that are "Free", but provide MS a constant stream of advertising revenue. I personally think it's a bit late for that, but what do I know?

    S.

  9. #8
    Gu3
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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    I think that "Let us upgrade you" is fast becoming slang for "Let us infect you".

    They're all in a mad dash to "acquire" our DATA and they don't give a crap what we have to say about it.

    It makes me sick.
    Amen!

    S.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    As for not being able to get any working drivers for our new hardware, we will always have the motherboard manufacturers providing software that will made their bling work.
    They cannot do otherwise and still expect to sell to us. Add-on cards will be the same.

    Microsoft doesn't have any say in this, other than to make their OS not work with that software wherever they can. (but we're already shunning the newest software from spy-central, right?)
    There will always be folks out there writing workaround software for us consumers.

    Data-Mining is creepy. It's all about snooping on your interests, habits, likes, and loves. Your information is power for them, power to sell.
    This info allows them to sell targeted adverts to companies that want your online dollars. Then, they make sure to send it to you through channels that they'll be keeping open at any cost.

    The problem is that all of these corporate entities have been looking at Google mining our data for all of these years and getting filthy-rich doing so. They want a piece of that huge people-data pie, but they don't know how to randomize that data, (like google has learned to do) and they wouldn't do it at all unless they get caught, and they're made to do so. You can expect them to try to control the people who write our laws, and those who apply any enforcement of them.
    This is already happening.

    The successful implementation of this strategy relies on giving the OS away for free. If we don't pay for it, then a lot of existing laws that are already in place to protect us become moot.
    We didn't buy it, so we are unprotected in the eyes of the law.

    I have a brand new Skylake i5-6600K CPU,
    an ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K6,
    32GB of GSKill RipJaws DDR4-2400MHz RAM,
    Two Kingston 480GB HyperX Savage SSDs
    A nice case and lots of WACO gear for it.

    I just cant bring myself to put it together because I'm so pissed-off at this progressively worsening issue.

  11. #10
    Gu3
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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    As for not being able to get any working drivers for our new hardware, we will always have the motherboard manufacturers providing software that will made their bling work.
    They cannot do otherwise and still expect to sell to us. Add-on cards will be the same.

    Microsoft doesn't have any say in this, other than to make their OS not work with that software wherever they can. (but we're already shunning the newest software from spy-central, right?)
    There will always be folks out there writing workaround software for us consumers.
    I think this is what makes that article so scary. Currently, Microsoft has very little say what Gigabyte, or MSI, or whoever do in terms of driver development (other than providing a model/API), however, if Microsoft pursues this approach, there are any number of things they can do to make sure it simply costs too much for vendors to backport driver support for new Hardware (think USB 4.0, or some follow-on to NVMe that isn't on current motherboards). Look at how hard it can be to get Win7 installed on Z97, Z170 boards due to GPT and USB3... Imagine if Microsoft deliberately made changes to the driver model for newer versions of the OS. At some point, it wouldn't be cost effective for manufacturers to backport drivers to older operating system versions, simply because it would cost too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    Data-Mining is creepy. It's all about snooping on your interests, habits, likes, and loves. Your information is power for them, power to sell.
    This info allows them to sell targeted adverts to companies that want your online dollars. Then, they make sure to send it to you through channels that they'll be keeping open at any cost.

    The problem is that all of these corporate entities have been looking at Google mining our data for all of these years and getting filthy-rich doing so. They want a piece of that huge people-data pie, but they don't know how to randomize that data, (like google has learned to do) and they wouldn't do it at all unless they get caught, and they're made to do so. You can expect them to try to control the people who write our laws, and those who apply any enforcement of them.
    This is already happening.
    No argument here, Data Mining is truly scary on many levels!

    Quote Originally Posted by realneil View Post
    The successful implementation of this strategy relies on giving the OS away for free. If we don't pay for it, then a lot of existing laws that are already in place to protect us become moot.
    We didn't buy it, so we are unprotected in the eyes of the law.

    I have a brand new Skylake i5-6600K CPU,
    an ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K6,
    32GB of GSKill RipJaws DDR4-2400MHz RAM,
    Two Kingston 480GB HyperX Savage SSDs
    A nice case and lots of WACO gear for it.

    I just cant bring myself to put it together because I'm so pissed-off at this progressively worsening issue.
    Yeah, I feel your pain. It's funny, I have run Windows since 3.0, and generally speaking until Vista I had no real complaints. Sure, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, XP all had their issues, but generally things were transparent enough that you could work with it. Windows 7 and Windows 10 seem to deliberately obfuscate the basic functionality you need to configure and operate your machine (Case and Point: Disk Plugin buried umpteen layers down in the Admin tree/control panel/thingy). The system is so obtuse and abstracted, that (to me) it makes Linux look friendly.

    I find that these days, while I feel fairly comfortable with 7, 10 leaves me scratching my head and installing software just to make it basically usable. On the other hand, I can boot Linux Mint 17 and feel completely at home. This is a circumstance I could never have predicted. Windows has always been friendlier. Now...it just seems like it's deliberately obtuse and hard to use.

    As for security, data mining, and simple privacy, well. I don't know that Linux is actually any better (there was a Zero day exploit announced in the last couple of days after all), but it's certainly more transparent, and I _feel_ more secure when I use it, I also feel like I have more control over what my OS is doing, but that could be a fanciful illusion too.

    Windows get's turned on for Games (well and the odd class that _requires_ some real MS Office Product)....

    And to be honest, Windows still does some things better than Linux (Bluetooth, Overclocking tools, IDE's). FWIW, I did buy my copy of Win10 OEM, as I couldn't get the "Upgrade" to work. Mostly because I couldn't successfully get Win7 and Linux to dual boot on my Z170 system. GPT, and Microsoft aren't TRULY friends. But your point about MS giving 10 away for free is a very valid and interesting one. Makes me glad I bought my copy, although I expect that won't help in the end! LOL

    Sorry ....rambling...

    Scott

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    Default Re: Ouch! Mandatory Upgrades...

    Its easy, if you want to run old ****ty hardware then use an old ****ty operating system. No one is forcing anything on you.

    "A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."

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    Last Post: 06-05-2006, 12:08

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